Plenary, 11 Nov 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

Official Report 791KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Angus Hospitals

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is satisfied with the physical state of hospital buildings in Angus and what plans exist for their modernisation and replacement. (S1O-601) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The national health service estate in Angus is considerably older than the average in Scotland. That is one reason why the NHS in Tayside is working to design modern and high-quality acute services that will meet the needs of the population of Tayside now and in the future.

Will the minister ensure the production of a programme of new building and the modernisation of Angus hospitals as a matter of urgency? Will she state whether, in principle, she will allow the resources to do that?

I congratulate Mr Welsh on his tenacity in questioning me weekly on this issue. I am absolutely determined to ensure that, both in Tayside and throughout Scotland, the process of local acute services reviews—which are on-going— will result in an improvement in services to the people those facilities serve, and that an appropriate balance is achieved between local access and quality of service. I stress that, although we are investing in new facilities—and I am sure that that will happen in Tayside—it is important to remember that services are not only about bricks and mortar. As we move into the 21st century, I shall ensure that quality services are provided in all the different ways.

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Domestic Violence Service Development Fund

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will provide a breakdown of the specific areas to which the £3 million pledged to the domestic violence service development fund will be channelled. (S1O-587)

The distribution of expenditure from the

domestic abuse service development fund will be determined by the success of individual local authorities in bidding for grants. Full bidding guidance will be developed and circulated very shortly.

I do not want to take anything away from what the minister is doing in this area— £3 million is very welcome. Would she consider putting resources into some preventive methods, simply because prevention, in many cases, is much better than cure?

I advise Mr Paterson that the full package is £8 million. We are putting money specifically into the three Ps—prevention, protection and provision.

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Devolution

To ask the Scottish Executive, further to the announcement by the Prime Minister on 25 October 1999 about the transfer of functions from the Secretary of State for Scotland to other ministers of the Crown, whether it or any Scottish public body was consulted on this transfer of functions. (S1O-569) The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe): The allocation of functions in the UK Government is a matter for the Prime Minister. Where any transfer of function affects the responsibilities of the Scottish Executive, we would be consulted.

Does the minister accept that the transfer of responsibility for telephone tapping has implications for the police service in Scotland? Will he accept that there is a strong case for the First Minister to be consulted on those matters and to be given his rightful place?

The transfer of functions was primarily concerned with national security. I assure Lord James that the Association of Chief Police Officers (Scotland), Government departments and all relevant agencies were consulted on that transfer.

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Ambulance Staff

To ask the Scottish Executive to detail any known statistics on the incidence of violence towards ambulance staff in the greater Glasgow area. (S1O-582) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): Data collected by the Scottish Ambulance Service show that, in the two years for which statistics are available, the number of incidents of violence to staff in the west central ambulance service were as follows: 17 in the year from 1 September 1997 to 31 August 1998; and 26 in the year from 1 September 1998 to 31 August 1999.

Does the minister agree that ambulance technicians and paramedics are not equipped to anticipate violence at the scene of an emergency but often experience violence, and that some personnel suffer serious assaults and find it hard to return to work? Will the minister undertake an investigation into the issue, considering such matters as a new statutory offence and the use of protective clothing and counselling services? Will she also join me in welcoming the members of Canadian public services unions who are here today?

I can give an absolute assurance that I am committed to ensuring that the safety of ambulance personnel is at all times secured. As the member will be aware, steps have been taken in west central Scotland in the light of recent incidents. I am also working with a range of individuals and organisations to see how safety for workers in the Scottish Ambulance Service and throughout the NHS can be improved.

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Rural Economy

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it proposes to assist the rural economy. (S1O-596) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): The Executive is committed to supporting and enhancing all aspects of rural life in Scotland, including through the development of a sustainable rural economy. A wide range of steps is being taken as part of the programme for government.

Is the minister aware of the anger felt by many hundreds of farmers throughout the Highlands and Islands who were led to expect that they would receive financial assistance under the agricultural business improvement scheme? Is he aware of the specific, unequivocal written assurance that was made on 18 February 1999 in a letter to Jim Wallace by Lord Sewel, the then agriculture minister, that any upsurge in applications under the scheme would be met? Is he aware that there is a deep sense of betrayal among farmers who have spent thousands of pounds expecting to receive the money and who will now be let down by the Executive?

Hear, hear.

First, I want to put the matter into perspective. [Laughter.] It is not a laughing matter; it is a serious issue. By the end of last year, 4,598 farmers had benefited from the agricultural business investment scheme and some £14.5

million had been expended on it. The total amount allocated to the scheme under the original objective 1 Highlands and Islands agricultural programme was £23 million. In no year until now have there been any more than £4.5 million-worth of applications. Since August of this year, we have received 3,900 applications, totalling £22.6 million.

Although I am now aware of the letter sent by Lord Sewel, I was not privy to it and I cannot determine the basis on which he gave that undertaking. I am now faced with a programme where, under HIAP, I had £1.2 million available and I have now received £22.6 million-worth of applications. What I am trying to do first of all is to take—

Is your first point your only point, Mr Finnie?

I am sorry. I am coming to the final point of my answer.

I will try to take account of Mr Ewing's very point in considering how to deal with people who have expended money in making their applications. I will also consider the prioritisation that must be given to the scheme. I am examining other schemes to see whether there is any prospect of finding other moneys to meet the need, although I do not want to raise any hopes.

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Millan Commission

To ask the Scottish Executive which organisations have already given evidence to the Millan commission and on how many occasions the commission has met. (S1O-551) The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): I understand that the full committee reviewing the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 has met seven times and has received written submissions from 130 organisations in Scotland in response to a consultation document that it published in April. In addition, more than 160 responses have so far been made to a leaflet issued by the committee, which was particularly designed to obtain the views of users and carers on mental health legislation.

The extent of the response to the Millan commission is interesting. When will the initial report be published? Will there be a second round of consultation? What is the time scale for the completion of the commission's work, which will allow us to deal with important aspects of mental health legislation?

I acknowledge Mrs Ewing's continuing interest in this matter. I believe that it was in response to a parliamentary question that she asked in another Parliament that Mr Galbraith first announced the Millan commission.

Clearly, the progress of the commission's work is its responsibility, but I am happy to report that 1,000 copies of the consultation document have been distributed. As I mentioned, a leaflet for users and carers has gone out. Various visits have been made to day-care services and psychiatric institutions and there are public seminars this month. The commission plans to produce a further consultation document early next year and we expect it to report to Scottish ministers in summer 2000.

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Residential Property (Surveys)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to bring forward proposals to replace multiple surveys with a single "seller survey" in the residential property market. (S1O592) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): In the programme for government, we undertook to seek to improve the house-buying process in Scotland. We are currently examining whether market-led solutions can achieve our objectives. We will decide, in due course, whether there is a need for legislation to achieve our objectives.

Through the press I have become aware of internet-based schemes. Does the minister agree that such schemes, delivered by a single company, would be difficult to access throughout Scotland and would leave the buyer ultimately liable for the cost? Would not a single survey that is paid for by the seller be a fairer and more cost-effective method of helping people to pay for surveys on homes that they will never buy?

It would, of course, be unacceptable to rely on a single commercial concern. We expect that a wide variety of firms will come up with solutions to the problem of multiple surveys.

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Secretary of State for Social Security(Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many times the First Minister has met the Secretary of State for Social Security since May 1999. (S1O-565) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): I have had no formal meeting with the secretary of state but I have kept in touch with him and discussed matters of contemporary interest on a number of occasions.

As this is armistice day, will the First Minister agree that we should use this opportunity to express our gratitude to our pensioners for everything that they have done for our country? As a way of expressing that gratitude, will he make

representations to the secretary of state on behalf of our pensioners and ask him to think again about the pittance of an increase—75p—that was announced on Tuesday? Will he point out to the secretary of state that our pensioners are paid far less than their German counterparts, whom they beat in the war, who get pensions of £181 a week?

I regret that Alex Neil has invoked this day of remembrance and then made an extremely partisan point. I do him the credit of thinking that he must know that that comparison with Germany is not like with like. Germany does not have the kinds of occupational pensions structures that we have in this country. Therefore, he is trying to draw a very incomplete comparison.

We all want to improve things for pensioners. I remind Alex Neil that this Government has helped the poorest pensioners by introducing the basic minimum pension guarantee, which is very important to the poorest pensioners. I also remind him that there was a wide welcome for the £100 winter payment, which we have just learned is to be a permanent feature, and that there are free television licences for the over-75s. That is distinct evidence of this Government's commitment to tackling the problems of pensioners—the Government will further tackle them through the introduction of stakeholder pensions. I hope that Alex Neil will pay tribute to that.

That whole exchange was in danger of being out of order.

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Parliamentary Questions

To ask the Scottish Executive, further to the answer to question S1W2044 by Donald Dewar on 1 November 1999, what measures it intends to implement to improve on its present performance by giving a substantive answer to all parliamentary questions within the 14-day period. (S1O-584) The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe): In my answer to Dr Richard Simpson on 2 September, I announced our intention to undertake an audit to promote effective dissemination and efficient use of resources. There is an obligation on all members to consider relevance, costs and how their actions impact on efficient service to other members.

Answer the question.

Ill-considered questions place a strain on the public purse and lead to a deterioration of service to other members.

Shame.

I am not sure that I welcome those supportive remarks.

I thank the minister for his robust and characteristic reply. Many questions are given a holding response and some of the questions remain outstanding after that for quite a long time. For instance, four weeks after a holding response there were 37 outstanding—

Mr Stone—

Could the Scottish Executive, with the civil service, try to clear some of the ones that have been longest outstanding?

There is an on-going attempt to make more efficient use of resources. In that light, I urge members and their assistants to make full use of SPICe, the Scottish Executive website and the websites of executive agencies.

We are asking too many questions—is that the problem?

Order.

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Long-Term Care

To ask the Scottish Executive how many people in Scotland have been assessed as in need of long- term care and are currently in hospital awaiting placement in residential and nursing home care. (S1O-564) The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): The latest estimate is that in the 35,500 staffed NHS beds in Scotland there are 2,015 patients who have, for a variety of reasons, waited two or more days for discharge. Some, although not all of them, will be awaiting a care home placement.

Thank you. Given that virtually all those people are in acute NHS beds awaiting funding packages from local authorities, and local authorities claim that they do not have the funds needed, will the minister tell us what steps he is taking to ensure that the necessary funding is put in place to end not only the blocking of the acute beds but to ensure that our frail elderly get the appropriate care that they desperately need?

I have given this answer before—the responsibility for resolving that problem in the short term lies with health boards and local authorities working together. Last Friday, the two health ministers met the most senior members of staff from every local authority and every health trust in Scotland, bar one, so that we could make exactly that point, among others—that it is they who must resolve the problem.

There is a problem of information, however. There are 40 possible reasons for delayed discharge; the point under discussion is one of

them. A pilot exercise is looking at ways of securing consistent, coherent data to enable us to find solutions to delayed discharge instead of placing blame for it.

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Information and Communications Technology

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is aware of what plans local authorities intend to make to provide technical support in schools to assist teachers in the light of the provision for information and communications technology for schools through the excellence fund. (S1O-575) The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): The majority of authorities plan to use some of their excellence fund resources to improve technical support for ICT in schools.

Teachers, like all MSPs, welcome the increased use of IT in the classroom, but there is concern that inadequate support will be available in terms of training and technical support for teachers, who are already expected to wear a variety of hats—

A question please.

—and learn a variety of skills. It is essential that they are given the proper back-up—

A question.

—but there is concern among teachers that they are not going to get it. Will the minister give an assurance that he will put the teachers' concerns to the local authorities?

I recognise this as an important issue. It is up to each local authority to make detailed arrangements in their area. Guidance issued by the Executive as part of the excellence fund in relation to the national grid for learning stresses the importance of technical support for computers in schools for the reason that Richard Lochhead raises. I am taking a particular interest in this matter and I know that, in the member's area, Moray Council and Angus Council have put services out on a managed-service basis and that Aberdeen has eight extra members of staff working on it. Efforts are being made, but I intend to keep the matter under review.

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Ministry of Defence Contracts

To ask the Scottish Executive what representations it has made to Her Majesty's Government to ensure that the Scottish economy benefits to the same extent as other areas of the UK from the placing of Ministry of Defence contracts. (S1O-580)

The Scottish Executive takes every opportunity to promote the interests of Scottish industry to the benefit of the Scottish economy, including through regular representations to the UK Government.

In the light of that answer, will the minister explain why, in the most recent financial year, Scotland—which has 8.7 per cent of the UK population—received only 0.42 per cent of MOD research contracts and only 5.7 per cent of MOD defence contracts, resulting in huge losses to the Scottish economy?

Colin Campbell quotes selective statistics. On the basis of the most recent figures available, total defence expenditure in Scotland— approximately £1.9 billion—supports 55,000 jobs directly and indirectly. Clearly, defence expenditure is substantial and important to our economy. UK Government figures for 1997-98 show that the number of people who are employed in Scotland as a result of defence expenditure on equipment contracts is proportionately the same as that for the whole of the UK. Of course, current SNP policy would ensure that large chunks of defence spending would come to a halt overnight, with the loss of thousands of Scottish jobs.

The minister has failed completely to answer my specific question on contracts.

If I call a member to ask a supplementary, that supplementary must be a question, not a statement or argument.

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Infectious Salmon Anaemia

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in discussions with the European Commission to relax or modify the regulations relating to the control of infectious salmon anaemia and what further meetings with the Commission are currently proposed. (S1O-552) The Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs (Mr John Home Robertson): Following representations from the Scottish Executive, the European Commission published proposals on 21 September 1999 for amendments to the directive that defines the measures that must be taken against ISA. The proposals were given a sympathetic hearing at a council working group of veterinary health experts on 19 October and will now go to a meeting of Community chief veterinary officers later this month. Meanwhile, the views of the European Parliament are being sought. We will continue to maintain close contact with the Commission on these important proposals, particularly in view of the discovery of ISA infection on six Scottish fish farms and in

some wild fish last week.

Does the minister accept that the discovery of ISA as far afield as the River Tweed shows that it is a wild disease and that therefore the outcome of the current eradication policy will be simply to eradicate the whole Scottish salmon industry?

This is a serious issue. We fully appreciate the importance of 6,000 fish- farm jobs to some of the remotest locations on the west coast, in the north and on the islands of Scotland. Tavish Scott is right. The recent evidence of the identification of the virus on six farms, including some in his constituency, and the identification of the virus in some wild fish raises serious considerations.

As he would expect, we are considering this matter urgently and we are working on options for a more flexible approach to the control of the disease. It would be better for all concerned if we could get rid of the disease. I expect to make a further announcement around the end of the month.

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Prescription Charges

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has any plans to extend the existing provision for exemption from prescription charges to include sufferers from life-threatening conditions such as cystic fibrosis and asthma. (S1O-599) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): We have no current plans to do so.

Is the minister aware that, when the exemptions were decided on, the drugs that are currently used to treat cystic fibrosis had not been developed, so the condition did not fit the criteria that were used? As the British Medical Association accepts, if the guidance were to be applied now, cystic fibrosis would meet the criteria. Moreover, the number of people who would be granted exemptions would be small.

I am aware of a number of the points that Mrs Mulligan raised, and I am happy to give detailed written responses to each of them. However, I stress that the subject of prescription charge exemptions is complex and sensitive, and regular representations are received on behalf of many groups.

There was a recent review of this matter at UK level but there is no consensus among clinicians on any changes to the system. However, I am happy to comment further on the points that have been raised and to look at how we can improve services and support generally for sufferers of cystic fibrosis and their families.

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Scallop Fishing

To ask the Scottish Executive, further to the answer to question S1W1660 by Mr John Home Robertson on 6 October, whether it has considered any detailed representations from the fishing industry about the financial impact of the ban on scallop fishing and whether it now plans to give any compensation to scallop farmers who have no means to diversify into any other forms of business. (S1O-583) The Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs (Mr John Home Robertson): The Scottish Executive has considered representations from the industry and we share its concern about the continuing need to restrict scallop fishing. We have concluded that compensation for the consequences of natural phenomena could not be justified. However, the problem of access to alternative fisheries will be considered at the next meeting of the Scottish inshore fisheries advisory group. We also understand the impact of the restrictions on scallop farmers, and I hope to meet representatives of the industry shortly.

I thank the minister for that reply. I am sure that he will appreciate that many of the scallop farmers are self-employed so do not qualify for state benefits. Because of the extended ban, they have suffered financial hardship to the point of bankruptcy. Will the minister and his colleagues in the Executive seriously consider lifting the ban, with immediate effect, on all scallop farms where the toxin levels recorded are below the permitted levels on two successive tests?

I stress that the prevention of amnesic shellfish poisoning is primarily the responsibility of the Minister for Health and Community Care. Our scientists are working hard to monitor levels of ASP toxin. I am advised that restrictions can be lifted when they are satisfied that the contamination falls below 20 µg of domoic acid per gram of fish. I am delighted that restrictions were lifted from two scallop farms on Skye on 13 October. I understand that applications from two more farms are making good progress. We must protect consumers from the risk of this disease. That is in the interest of the consumers and the fishermen.

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Digital Television

To ask the Scottish Executive what meetings have taken place between it and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport over the issue of digital television as it affects Scotland. (S1O-604) The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith): The Scottish Executive has

ensured that the UK Government is aware of the importance in Scotland of firm guarantees on coverage of digital television.

That was not the question. At those meetings, was the minister made aware of the UK Government's policy of switching from analogue transmission to digital transmission the moment that the majority of the United Kingdom— not Scotland but the United Kingdom—can be reached by digital television? Is the minister aware that that could create a digital desert in the Highlands and Islands, where the coverage of digital television is not extended? Will he guarantee that there will be no move to digital television until there is blanket coverage in the Highlands and Islands, as elsewhere in the United Kingdom?

The undertaking is that analogue transmission will not be switched off until coverage is at least as good as it is at present. Mr Hamilton will be aware that at present there is not universal coverage of television in Scotland. I am having discussions to investigate whether there is any possibility of extending that coverage. Some of the people who are not covered, but who will be, will be more than 75 years of age. In the light of the chancellor's recent announcement about the licence fee, that will ensure that they not only get coverage, but get it for free.

Is the minister telling us, for the first time, that coverage in the Highlands and Islands will be the same as it is in every other part of the United Kingdom? If he is, that is a major announcement, which I welcome.

If Mr Hamilton listened to me instead of preparing his next question, he would have heard me say that there is an undertaking that analogue will not be switched off until coverage is at least as good as it is at the moment. That is a firm undertaking.

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Health Boards

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to reconsider the geographical boundaries of health boards to take account of recent health reforms in Scotland. (S1O-556) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): We have no current plans to reconsider the geographical boundaries of Scotland's health boards.

Will the minister assure me that health boards will be encouraged to demonstrate best value, openness and accountability in the planning of services for the populations that we represent?

I am happy to give Margaret

Jamieson that assurance. Now that there is a new structure in place in the national health service in Scotland—one based on collaboration rather than on the competition of the former internal market—I am keen that, along with those improvements, we should have the highest possible standards of accountability at a local level throughout the NHS.